0:06
Hello there rebels souls and welcome back. I am so excited for today's guest with me is not only somebody who is a rock star in the coaching industry and helping people with not feeling miserable during their launches, but she has become a friend of mine a coach friend over the year and I am so excited to have toccata on the show today.
0:35
I'm so excited to dive into this. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for just who you are in the world.
0:45
Oh, thank you. I feel the same way and I have to be honest with you guys. I think one of the big main reasons why I wanted to start this podcast is so I could just have conversations with my coach friends. And a couple of weeks ago, you guys heard the conversation with Jen Navarro. And I talked about how, you know we would chuck chat and I'd be like I just want to record all of our conversations to like share with the world and I feel the same exact way. With Teavana. We have been having conversations probably for like, I guess Wait, so we first actually met in a club house chat. And how we became friends is because the chat that we were in was kind of a controversial topic. It was really about like opening Pandora's box and some of the things that we were seeing in the coaching industry specifically that were making us like cringe and we bonded over some topics that we both sided on the same way and felt very passionate about. And from there. We just started you know supporting each other in our businesses and really and what I love about talking with you to vana is that we're not just talking about us in our businesses, but we're always thinking about the whole picture of how the industry and other people are functioning and taking it from this like much bigger view which is why I'm just so happy to have you on here because it's it really is so uplifting and just a beautiful view that you bring to all of the conversations.
2:16
Thank you for that and and thank you for that acknowledged me because yeah, I think the work that I do, I think the work that both of us do. We have clients who are coaches, healers, teachers, but it's really bigger than that. And I think every time we talk it's like not just how can we help our businesses but what do we see and how can we help other people and help other people's businesses too, so yes, so many things that we've talked about. I can't wait to see what comes up during this conversation because it's always like, it's always so healing and stimulating, I think to like, walk away from our conversations having such great ideas and new ways of thinking.
2:58
Yeah, and I think that it really is about this new way of thinking. And you guys, as you know, this podcast is about being a rebel, right. It's about doing things opposite of what other people are saying. And I think one of the things that really we bonded over in our businesses is learning how to kind of step aside and do things a little bit differently than other people instead of going with the status quo of what we're told and me and you have, we're both actually trained from the same school, The Life Coach School, which has an amazing community and some amazing people that have come out of that community but I think as coaches we can get caught up in looking at other people and wanting to be like them and thinking like well if they did it that I need to do it that way and like wanting to kind of fit in and me and you both have stories of of doing it the quote unquote right way or like trying to play by the rules, but then after a certain point being like oh, wait, that only gets you to some point. But really the thing that maintains you and makes it sustainable and lights you up is when you're able to do things a little bit differently.
4:06
Yeah, I mean, that is differently but do them authentically. Like do them in the way that feels good two years old. Because I just have noticed it myself and other people all the time and maybe you hear this to Lauren it's like so and so said to do this, but so and so said to do that, and it's so interesting because when I'm talking with the person and we just are in our little safe little bubble for a second and we're just experimenting and no ideas off the table, no ideas wrong, as I'm really listening to them and asking questions and reading energy, like I pick up on cues and I'm like, ooh, something changed there. Let's go down this path. And let's see what the see what unfolds. And you here's some of the most brilliant ideas that I've never ever heard of and I'm a student of my craft and then they shut themselves down was so associated with so and so does it this way and it this is not to shame anyone for doing it because it makes perfect sense. Why we do that we many of us are raised in a society where in order to get ahead in order to be long in order to connect, we have to be like everyone else or we have to follow the rules or we have to stay in line or we have to stay in the color inside of the box and all of these things. And so, as I'm mixing my metaphors here, it's like we it's a safety mechanism. And so I think once I got beyond just the cognitive part, and I started diving into trauma work and being a trauma informed coach. It has made so much sense and so if if you take nothing else from what what I say today is like what you do make sense.
5:56
I just want to sit with that for a minute. Because it it does. It's what makes sense feels good. And if you're confused, then it's not for you or something is like out of alignment, right? It really gets to be that simple. I want to go back to this trauma informed coaching because I think that this is I think, to be honest, I think a really newer thing in the coaching industry because even the coaching industry itself is in its infancy, infancy right. And it's kind of been a little bit of a wild wild west of people coming in and like there's been some really good things that have happened and then there's been, you know, coaches that have come in and have not done so, so much good stuff for the coaching industry. And I think that people like when we've had these conversations like where it's like people like me and you and a lot of the networks that we run in it's we're very conscious about how we're showing up in the imprint that we're leaving in the coaching industry and the ripple effect that it has on people. So tell me how like what made you go into this trauma informed work?
7:01
Well, it's because I'm a very strategic thinker. Even though I'm an intuitive Empath, and I follow energy I also think about like, what's the simplest way to get from A to Z also, and we're very, very, very, very intelligent people who've done amazing things in their lives. And so what I started to notice was that people will come to me with the an idea that they had a strategy that they came up with, or something that makes perfect sense when we lay it out, and when it's time to press go, they freeze or they start spinning around. They want to change everything at the last minute or they want to add tech so much more into it. Or they start fighting me against something that they came to me with and I was like, what is happening? This is so weird. I don't understand, like everything's ready to go, what's happening. And so as I saw this happen over and over again. I was like, I don't know what to do with this. And my background is as a physical therapist. So in healthcare, whenever we start to butt up against a similar pattern or theme or something over and over again, my natural inclination is to go figure out like, well, what's wrong? And what other tool or skill do I need? To help these clients, but in that case, would have been these patients. And so I happen to go to a class where someone mentioned trauma responses, and it never even dawned on me even though I was a physical therapist for 19 years practicing for 90 years that fight flight freeze, all stress and trauma responses and then I was introduced to fawn, which is fit in so if I were to go back and say the fight was whenever you feel yourself resisting or fighting against your coach or you hear your client fighting or resisting against you that person might be in a fight response. If just like I described before, everything's ready to go, everything's laid out and when it's time to press record, it's time to hit post, it's time to do the thing. Then the person's like I can't and all of a sudden other priorities get in the way. Or if a person starts changing a bunch of stuff, that's the flight response. And so I started noticing those but the one thing that I was not familiar with in all my years of practice was the font response, which means to fit in, and I think that's a little bit what you read. Related to earlier Lauren, when you were saying so often we go through these schools and we see our favorite mentors, coaches, people, teachers, doing a certain thing and we want to fit in we want to belong so even if or even though it doesn't quite feel right inside of us. We find we fit in we do the thing because we want to fit in we want to belong and it that is a trauma or stress response.
10:03
Yeah, so good. I had the same exact experience within my business too. You know, I would work with these amazing people who in their soul, they're like, no, they're meant to do this work, right? It's like that's all they can think about and they want it the desire is there. But then when it comes to taking action, or you know, there's all of this emotional which I call emotional coding, which is also trauma from the past. It's that's in their way in. You know, I'm so happy that this emotional work is coming up as I knew it would in this conversation because it is it's it's the emotional resiliency that we have to develop and be aware of our motions and understand how they work really in order to do this kind of work. Right. And we think it's a strategy that's going to get us to the results. We think it's the having the right coach and that will help both of them will help the right time. But ultimately, it ends up being this inner emotional game. This game of being able to not only learn how to feel your emotions, but take action when it feels uncomfortable. And know when is a time to take action. And when is it time to stop and release the emotions and my work and it's interesting, like I think back now to how I ran my business in the past, and I was working like 60 hours a week and that was all action and a lot of like spinning out action where now I work maybe 2030 hours a week, depending on the week and some of the action is actually just me sitting and like feeling my emotions and shifting my emotions. Like if somebody was a fly in the wall in my house. It'd be very confused sometimes we're like, what I would call is working is would be like me just sitting in a chair, which means like, why are you just sitting there for an hour and it's because I'm literally processing emotions and like doing the work and that's the thing that is able to then get me into this place where everything is possible.
12:14
Yeah, I mean it is depending on your background, your culture and ethnicity. You say it's like dependent on all of that stuff. It might like we're talking to you and you're like, I don't have time for that. I don't want to open Pandora's box. I don't want to start crying because if I start crying, I probably won't stop like all of those things are running through my mind when I started this work, and what I want to tell you is so much easier on the other side. Yeah, it's probably going to suck in the beginning. If you've been holding down emotions if there are certain what I call a no go emotions in your life. Those are the emotions where we don't want to touch those with a 10 foot pole because of what we think they will do to us. And I've given you a personal example one of mine for so many years that I could not access was anger. It was one of my trauma responses like Do not get angry and when I thought that the reason why I didn't want to be angry is I had the story of somebody's gonna get hurt. So I was very afraid of that emotion. And so it caused me to do a lot of things to avoid it to buffer against it to like just do all these things. And in the end, I was the one that was getting hurt because when we trap our emotions in our nervous system, this is when we see it, that the physiology is where it comes out. In my work as a physical therapist, people had chronic pain they call it Fibromyalgia but really what I noticed and as my work comes full circle, really what I noticed was a lot of trapped emotions that were unable to unable or unwilling to be released from the body.
13:51
Yeah, so good. So I know the work that you do is and I know you're really into helping people with launch like launch launches and you talk about this term and I love so much called Launch trauma. Tell Tom me a little bit about that and like how that came to be for a base of your of your observations and working with people.
14:14
Yeah, well, I started down the just the general trauma rabbit hole. And then I noticed as I was helping people do like learn how to launch do their first launches. These things were coming up so it usually rears its head and the first or the second launch. This is what I'm noticing. So either a person puts their heart and their soul and they do all the take all the action do all the things follow the blueprint road and checklist thought of that. And they're just working so hard. And the launch doesn't go how they expected. And that person feels devastated. Because they're like, Well wait a minute. I did everything. I did all the things that do what you told me to do. And so there's that I see it come up that way. Then the other thing that happens is either the first launch doesn't go like they thought it worked, or the first launch goes way better than anticipated for all intents and purposes. It's a successful launch. You're like yes, and it you know, I can launch his launches are easy. I think that's really at the crux of it. That's what happens in their mind. So then they go to launch number two and try to repeat and then something happens that I call the sophomore curse because between launch number one and launch number two usually what has happened on launch number one is this person was in play mode. They were in experimentation mode. They were just having a lot of fun. They were just following their gut their intuition whatever and they were just it there was really what happened was there were no expectations on it. And so they were able to create from that energetic space. And because of that they were able to allow a lot in but then between that first and the second one what I see people do is like oh my gosh, that either that one was a fluke. Or now I've got to do it right and I gotta put some structure around and then that's when they go look for the strategy. They look for the guru. They look for the checklist, the blueprint, the roadmap, and then it gets all tight and stuffy, and then the second one takes and then they go then that's permission to them to say see that first one was a fluke. I knew I couldn't do and so then they too are devastated or disappointed or whatever your no go emotion is. And the challenge with that is then they start to hate the launches blame themselves to blame the person the strategy, blame the person that gave them the strategy and usually unfortunately, that's when people quit. because either they're going to change one of those major things, they're going to change their offer. They are going to stop working with the coach are going to stop using the strategy and does and so forth. And so that's that's what I tend to see happen in the launches. So what I've started to tell people is like if you can get to number three, you're basically home free.
17:10
Oh, good. Oh, I am so happy that we're talking about this because I think it's so important for people to hear this to know that this is a real thing. And I actually experienced this with my second round of effortless sales. And when Mikey and Jen launched our second round of the mastermind we actually just went deep on to this in our last episode that we did so this is so great. So let me ask you this then knowing that this happens, how do people prevent this like sophomore slump from happening like what's what's your like, if you could give like a little like typic I mean, I know that you walk people through this and you're like the master making it fun. But what would you want them to know that the things that they can do right now?
17:51
Yeah, I think it depends on it really depends on how you're looking at it. So I would say what are the expectations you're putting on the next module for the second arch? Like can you get it back into experimentation into play mode into fun, get back ship back into your mission? Because usually as the people starting to ship everything on to themselves over the mission is like, Oh, I have to repeat the sales or I have to beat the sales, or people are looking at me or everybody will know or I did this on the first one. So I have to do this on site. So when we do that, that's when it's one knee assay. But then when you ship back to the mission like why am I who am I doing this for what is the ultimate goal that we're trying to achieve? It just releases a lot of the pressure. So it's an it's a little bit more individual but I would say look at are you putting pressure on yourself for the second one for whatever reason, and see, do whatever you have to do to release that pressure? Because here's the thing if we remember that we created this offer as a soul Yes. Meaning when it was safe. We were in a nice little bubble and this is what our soul wanted to say yes to, then that's what we're supposed to be doing. What we've we get trapped in the moment and forget that we're in business for the long haul. So if we think about this as being something that we will be doing for at least the next one to three years at minimum, then what is one launch me not much in the grand scheme of things because if we keep doing it, it has an IT can only get better, as long as we don't quit and as long as we don't make too many major changes each time and when we do make the changes they're based in abundance instead of scarcity.
19:53
Oh, it's so good. And I think another thing that like I know from my experience with like after launches, is really looking at our emotions and that when we after the thing happens, there's like this, there's a little bit of an emotional wave and not to make decisions when you're feeling the emotion right like afterwards. And I think that this is like a huge thing that I see we're actually I'm going to tell a very vulnerable story and I've never shared this publicly, but I feel like it's really meant to bring now so after my second round, so I've done effortless sales, my signature program two times now and they were both live. And after my second round of effortless sales, and I had the look. In general they're both fairly successful, but the second one wasn't as successful as I thought it was because once again I put too much pressure I got out of the play of it. And after the end of it, it felt like I was disappointed in myself, right like I have all of these negative emotions about like, hey, what wasn't what I thought and from that place of having doubt and actually feeling like what I had created was like, too, so much of a program. I felt like it was so big and like oh, I have to break it up and I have to do all these things. Because from this place of being disappointed in myself and having all these motions I tried to change the strategy or tried to change the actual thing to fix it. Instead of actually looking at my emotions and being curious and seeing that all of the stories that were coming up were just bullshit. And what actually happened is after that, me and Jen, that really worked really deep into our podcast and then the mastermind came up and he and Jen decided to both go all in our Mastermind and I like kind of gave up effortless sales up Nope, that just like, you know, I'm not going to do that anymore. Because this feels better. This feels like fun. And that was the right thing to do now, but after going on this year journey and you know, doing the thing with Jen and coming back being like, what do I really want to do? I sat down one day and I was like, what do I really want to do? What am i What's my zone of genius and I like its sales. It's assigning clients. I'm like, Okay, if I were to teach this to the world, how would I teach it? Knowing what I know? And like wrote it all down, and I looked at it and I was like, this is effortless sales. This is the program that I created. This is what I'm meant to do. But I walked away and I went down a whole other path for six months because I made decisions from a place of emotions after a launch. And right and now it's like I see this with my clients where they're like, oh, I need to, oh, this offer didn't work. I need to change the strategy or I need to change my knees or I need to do something where no it didn't work because of the because of the emotions. Because of the misalignment. You can still get those results but it's after coming in. Literally clearing the emotions and questioning things and poking holes at the bullshit lies and coming back to like, oh wait, like this is what's meant for me and getting to a place of calm and not making decisions about your business when you're in those emotional rises.
22:50
I mean, I see it so often. Now I'm like, my heart just bleeds every time I hear this story, because it's two people get to one or two launches and that's it. And the first thing to go is the offer. And I'm like, Oh no, please don't do that because the world needs this offer. But here's what we know. emotions like humans are designed to seek pleasure and avoid pain. And so if disappointment feels awful devastation feels all doubt feels awful. We're going to do whatever we need to do to get away from that emotion. And in this case, the fastest and easiest thing that we can point to is the thing that we were selling. So the thing is, so that's where the trauma work comes in and your emotional clearing work comes in the being present with a little version of ourselves that said, Hey, I have this thing like I bought this game or I have this ball. Do you want to play with me? And you offer to play with someone and not as many people say yes as you thought or nobody says yes. And then what does the little version of us say? What is little to vana say about that? What is little Lauren say, Oh, nobody loves me. This was terrible. I should throw this ball out go home. And that's the person. That little version of us the inner child they wanted to be witnessed that wants to know like it doesn't matter how many people say yes to play with you. I'm here with you. I want to be with you.
24:24
Yeah, so good. And I know you can you will agree with this. But the more I have an understanding of how emotions work and have the skill set to release the emotions and really do this emotional work on a daily basis. The easier quote unquote, my businesses calm or like the ability to like show up without the resistance of it right and it's just a toolset. It's just a way of looking at. I want to emphasize when you have mastery over your emotions, when you have it's not that they don't ever come so you don't feel anything and it's like this easy road but it's knowing that the emotions can come and when they come that you have the ability to ride that wave. That really is the freedom in the business, right. So now after doing this for five years, when the negative emotions come when it comes in, like there it is, it's not a big deal. I'm just gonna write this and therefore it doesn't make me better and I'm able to get get it make it any worse and I'm able to release it and get out of it faster. So just the judgments of the actual feelings and thinking that it shouldn't be there and the resistance of the feelings that makes it so hard and especially when we go through a launch and we don't take the time to clear the emotions and get into a good place before we move forward. We're going to always emotionally have baggage around that launch is going to make it feel heavier every time we go to launch again.
25:57
Right and then we're going to run away from the uncomfortable feelings and so then eventually, it's like we're not launching ever. Right because we don't want to feel that because this puts so many times I found that people will pick themselves up again to create another offer that is only going to work so many times to the point where people will just not do it ever again and then then are relegated to maybe doing one on one when that's not necessarily what they want it to be doing.
26:24
Yeah, yeah, so true. Alright, so I want to I want to know what else what other tips you have. For people when it comes to even just showing up right with like your gifts. What is what is your favorite way for showing up and like expressing to the world like well, how do you make it feel easy?
26:48
How do I make you feel easy for me and I don't know. Do you have you talked about human design
26:54
with the people? Yes, please, please go into that she's doing
26:57
okay. Oh, yay, to introduce human design. So I this is my very, very, very limited knowledge of human design. But there are four five types energy types in the world and they all interact in different ways and the bare basics of it is some types are designed to initiate certain types are designed to guide. Other types are designed to reflect how things are going. And the other type is designed to basically be the worker bees and I'm one of the worker bees, no girl generators and by the name, we just have a lot of energy. So once I go to sleep once I wake up, I've got plenty of energy, especially if I'm working on something I am super jazzed about. It's like to the point where some of us can be called obsessive, like don't bother me when I'm working on a project that I really enjoy. And so it how do I use that to be visible? In a way that feels easeful is I try to find things to respond to because that's another part of my particular type of human design as a generator is we respond best to we respond. That's how we do if we see something in the world. Doing this I'm responding in real time to your questions. If we see things that happen with our clients, and so I find for myself, I can bang out a three to 500 word, email blog post no problem with two times right after a coaching session, especially if something out of the ordinary happens if I'm in a Facebook group and something happens I can literally feel it in me and then I have to get it out if someone asks me a question, so I really tried to put myself in positions where I have to respond to something whereas with another type with their whole way of being in the world is to initiate mass called a manifester. They are designed to initiate so for them to come up with new concepts off the top of their head without anybody else around them. That's their chain. I cannot do that. I have to it mean I can do it. But it takes so much time and energy is like Why Why not just lean into my strengths and how I naturally work so that that's how that group works. And then the other main group is the projector and they are the guides of the world. And so they're how they function is to be invited to something so they get to bring their gifts to an invitation of schools. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to wait in a traditional way for somebody to invite you to the podcast or to be their client or whatever. It just means just like with me to respond, it doesn't mean I have to be responding to somebody directly but I get to think create creatively on how I can put myself in position to respond.
29:57
Oh man, I love I love going down this direction with human design. I myself I'm a projector so I definitely know. It's interesting. Like, my whole thing is just gonna be lit, right like I gotta be lit up. It's got to be like a hell yes for me and that goes out there. And I think that once again, even with human design, we can't let it limit us right where I think that it's a it's a helpful tool tool to understand. And I use it but I think that sometimes we can go to the extremes and like push ourselves and be like, Oh, well, I have to be weird to be invited invited. So I'm just going to leave that
30:33
right and that's why I said it the way I did because I'm like oh you projectors? No, no, no, don't take that and use it against yourself. And just the way I think about it is human design is not prescriptive, at least in the way that I see it. It is just like really any other personality test that you've taken honestly. But I liked it because I don't have to answer any questions other than one's birthday. What time was that born and where was I born? Because then that way it's like, oh, yeah, I've noticed that I do that. I noticed that I feel better when I do that and then I can just leave it. If I don't resonate with something that said then it's like okay, not for me. I think that's a beautiful way just to approach life and to approach business. One of my friends I was talking to she's that I'd never go into program and do all the modules never ever and she was like a guest and I was like why?
31:25
Like, what but either still in the good student
31:29
mode and I'm like, No, whenever I go into a program, I'm very clear about what this person can help me with what they can teach me and what I need to achieve the next goal, and then I go directly for that. And then if I pick up other things for sure, but I'm not going to relegate myself to doing all the things perfectly before I take action.
31:53
I love it. And I know when human design kind of came into my life, I realized, right because there's five different types. I was like, oh wait, it's not a one strategy and coaches and formulas are not a one size fits all. It's gave me permission to take whatever the strategy was, and then be like, Okay, how does this align to me and how does it feel to me so I think it just, I think it's beautiful to like, take programs and make them their own right like I love that you can I'm the same way like I'll just get what I came for like I don't need to do all the things. And it's it's so beautiful to have that permission to like, do it your way. And I really think that human design just gives that everybody that permission.
32:36
Yeah, and to be able to advocate for yourself, right so when you're in a program is okay, just it does I guess depending on what part of a person's background was like in going through a school system so I I was the first person in my family not to go into the educational system. So all my mom, her sisters, everybody were teachers. So I grew up being a person who could ask it felt like I could ask the teacher questions. But like if I didn't understand something that I would ask, again, agitate for myself, but I think a lot of people don't feel permission to do that, especially when they're in these group settings that suck a little bit mirror or mimic the school setting. So it's like, oh, that's the authority. That's the teacher. They know the way don't talk back. Don't ask questions and I'm like, no less. Advocate for yourself. Because here's the thing, not only will it help you it will help the other people in the container it will help the future people because it will give the coach some insight into something that they may have missed because if we just talked about there being five different types, energetic types and human design, especially if we didn't come from program design or educational background, why would we think that we would be really skilled at designing programs for different types of learners. We just tend to sell the way that we want to be sold to or we tend to teach the way that we like to learn. And so by by you speaking up and advocating for yourself, you are literally helping everybody.
34:14
Yes, so true. It's like the ripple of the world when you're speaking up. It's like other people. It's not just for you, it's for them. Okay, another question for you. If you did go back to yourself when you first started your business, what is the one piece of advice that you would that you would give yourself that
34:41
all emotions are welcome to you. Don't be afraid it doesn't mean that you've done something wrong or that there's something wrong with you.
34:52
Yeah, so beautiful. For those that are listening that are maybe you're a little bit more curious about like, oh, maybe there is some something to this emotional emotional coding this emotional trauma and they're looking to kind of just get started what would what would your advice be to them? Like what's the first few steps for somebody to really understand more about their emotions and how to make it so that it's not in their way of their business?
35:21
I think the changing the wording of the question that we asked ourselves from what do I need to do here to what am I feeling right now? Just like ask something What am I feeling right now? Anytime you're doing something that's against what you say you want to be doing, or you're not doing something that you know, would help you get to where you want to go? We so often like why am I doing that in and I would just ask change the question, What am I feeling right now? And then the follow up question is why?
36:01
That's so good question. Right? Because when you and I think too when you start questioning things, you automatically kind of change your story when you can ship your feeling in the moment.
36:12
Yeah, I mean, there's so much relief. I think one of the biggest things that my clients get from me is a sense of relief. It's like, there's nothing wrong with that's the biggest thing in all of it. Nothing has gone wrong here. There's nothing wrong with me. This one launch that didn't go the way I anticipated doesn't mean that I'm doomed to fail forever. And I have to go back to my job that I hate or whatever. Like whatever it is for you.
36:43
Yeah, that's such it's so beautiful to get to that place. And I think that our ability to shift back into the like, I'm okay, I'm safe in this very moment like it's such a key point. It's a reset place that ends up being the safety in my business where I'm like, Oh, wait, okay, this is just a fear. I'm actually safe. I'm in this beautiful place right now. I'm safe in my body and like I think that when people can realize that it's, we're okay. And that nothing's gone wrong. And that was like my mantra to myself, like the first year and a half of my business. Nothing's gone wrong, because it's like, it's a little traumatic at first. We were starting a business with all these unknowns and all of these things going on. So to get back to this place, is just so beautiful.
37:28
Yeah, I was just reading something earlier they were the person said the beauty of uncertainty is infinite possibility.
37:39
A good one. Okay, any last minute thoughts, anything else little nuggets? That you would like to leave us
37:49
with? The last name nugget that I would say we talked a lot about the emotions but I also there is some strategy to things right. So what I would ask anybody to do because not, not many of us either know how to do it, or we don't make time to do it, or we're afraid to do it is to evaluate your launch afterwards. From a real perspective, like let's get some data. Let's get some numbers. Let's get some facts on paper. Because so often I've heard people say it failed the launch. And we haven't even decided one ahead of time what success was, but to Sometimes I hear people say the launch failed, but they make just as much or close to the same amount of money as they did from the first so what failed again? Or maybe they don't get as many clients as they want, but they don't realize of the various steps and of which I teach. They're five steps over launch. They may have gotten way more numbers in each of the four steps. And then it's just that last part, so it's like, oh, there's only one piece here that you need to turn up. That would have resulted in so you just need to do it again and work on this piece. And so that's why it is so so important for us to actually thoroughly evaluate the launch so we can see like in real time what exactly happened where exactly do we need to make some tweaks
39:21
Yeah, so good. And I think it's so helpful for to like help direct the mind the things that are working versus and focus on on the things that are not right and it's like when you do take the evaluation you have a hard proof and evidence to like direct your your brain to so that's such a such a good little piece of advice there. Absolutely. So you guys to vana has a podcast herself as well. It's amazing. I have been a guest on it. I want to I want you to tell everyone where they can find you so that you guys can you guys have to continue to follow her if you want to hear some work term, amazing little nuggets and more interviews. You can go follow her on her podcast, I'll let you tell everybody all the details tells them where they can find you.
40:05
Yeah, the best way to find me is to vana denise.com So that's ta V is in Victor oh and a d e n s e.com And it's at Solana Denise on Instagram that's another place where I am pretty regularly. And then I also have a podcast too called coaching and conversations which depending on when this is released may have shipped to shipped it to launch conversations. So that's cool. We got
40:32
yay, love it so exciting. And I'll make sure that all of that is linked up into the show notes that you guys will easily be able to go over there and connect and listen to even more great, amazing conversations. And Giovanna thank you so much for coming. On here. I feel like this conversation has been like in the unfolding for a while since we met and like a clubhouse room and I just remember like feeling so lit up by like so many of our conversations and like the passion that has come from like us getting together and like getting to like, really talk with the good the bad and the ugly of like what goes on behind the scenes. And I'm so happy that we were able to bring a little bit a little bit of what we talked about to to everybody here listening with us. Yeah,
41:16
thank you so much for having me. I hope this was helpful.
41:20
Lily and thank you guys for tuning in. And I will see you next week.
41:25
You
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